I have recently purchased a 4thGen 2-tuner and am experiencing issues with Roku. Reading these threads exposes me to a lot of questions about how the Tablo system actually works. I can understand that the company might want to keep a lot of details secret, but the only technical information I can locate are the color-glossy ad statements on the website, which leave a lot to the imagination.
For example, we have a very complex TV household with half a dozen TVs, mostly with Rokus, a separate DirectTV network (which I hope to phase out), various phones and tablets and lots of subscription channels like Max, Paramount+, Netflix, Prime…
Until reading these threads, it did not occur to me to wonder what the Tablo box is designed to do when multiple TVs request replay or live requests. How much multi-tasking is the system designed to handle? Issues like tuner time overlaps for multiple shows, odd events on the half-hour, all suggest a not-very-robust design.
I would, at least, like to be able to figure out what is supposed to happen before trying to figure out why it doesn’t happen, or doesn’t happen “correctly”. As a lifetime software developer, I know how we hate to document things, but I think some level of specs would be useful. :–} Howard
2-tuner should be 2 OTA recording or linear playback. Plus 2 virtual tuners for FAST channels. Over laps are conflicts and FiFo should be used to resolve conflicts.
Thanks @Ron1 - at first I dismissed the link as trivial, but it does include the sentence “The 4th Generation Tablo also has either two or four ‘virtual’ tuners used to stream and record free streaming channels.” Not sure if this means that the 2-tuner Tablo has 2 virtual tuners, and the 4, 4, – but assuming that is so, it suggests that the 2-tuner Tablo should be able to handle recording 2 channels while simultaneously playing back 2 other channels (files? - maybe that is what it means - maybe not - maybe it only applies to the “free” stuff, rather than prior recordings). It is not clear what an additional playback request would see – I get the spinning circle with a lot less demand than that. It would be healthier to respond back with a denial, rather than spinning circle.
Given all the IETF TCP/IP standards that include default timeouts how long should a tablo app wait for a TCP/IP response. Especially given that some OS’s might not allow for asynchronous user controlled timers.
The tuners are either 2+2 or 4+4. Let’s use the example of a 2-tuner to simplify things.
This would mean you can watch or record two OTA and two FAST at the same time. Pick and choose whether you want to watch or record, it can only handle that many live streams at a time. However, there are a few exceptions. If you are recording on channel A and playing live channel B, any party can come in and watch either of those because it would go from the cached/recorded file.
Regular playback of recordings can be done on as many TVs as you have as long as your network can support the bandwidth. Keep in mind that you’re using internal bandwidth so it differs from your network speed. Some users have tested with 8 shows playing at once, but I do believe this is mentioned somewhere in Tablo’s very confusing Support Pages.
Another thing to note is if you are watching a channel and the Tablo needs both tuners for recording, it will override what you’re watching and kick you out of it. I believe you will see a “No Tuners Available” type of error or a message regarding your signal.
Since the OP already owns a 2-tuner it really isn’t that hard to test the combo’s they desire/question and see if it matches the document. A 4-tuner takes more effort.
Thank you - that is a very clear presentation. I will not have a need to stress the device to that extent, although I think I will replace the 2-tuner model with a 4-tuner model. The critical aspect for me will still be solid support for Roku devices, and I am even willing to replace all my existing Rokus with compatible ones.
I’m not saying Roku isn’t the problem – even on a 1GB plan, I’ve seen the speed max out at a little over 100MB! Yes, that’s the internet speed, but it gives you an idea of what the actual device can handle. I believe it was an Express 4k+ (I just set up my parent’s new network) but the Tablo’s always done pretty good with their Roku.
I’m about 95% sure that network speed is not the problem. One piece of evidence is that the FireTV stick plugged into the same TV works just fine. It is in the same room as the WiFi on a 1Gb plan that is pretty fast. Could theoretically be a general Roku wifi inadequacy (or variability) problem. I have not tested FireTV on the other tvs, but none of the Rokus in other rooms perform adequately for Tablo - all are just fine for all their other streaming needs.
I would really like to hear one good ringing endorsement for a specific Roku device (maybe with wifi/internet context as well).
As of today, all I can say is that various rokus have been tried in various spots without solid success, and the FireTV and Android phones do work reliably. Suggests a pattern.
I’m not completely sure that this answers your question, but I can tell you that on my four tuner version, I have been able to watch on four TVs simultaneously. I have also tried watching the same pre-recorded program on all four TVs at once and it handled it just fine. They were not all in sync, not that I cared, but they all played without trouble. I tried this as a test, only because I was curious.
I am running a variety of newer and older Roku boxes on my system. I’m not saying I don’t get some glitches with my Roku, but this test worked fine.
Yes, that is useful information. I’m trying to nail down the variables, so having a good idea of a high load that can be handled, means that my one or two tvs involved in the testing are not causing my problems.
Your point that you are having only a few glitches with mixed Roku boxes is also interesting. Are those the actual separate box units, or are they one of the stick versions?
I would check to see if the Roku devices are using 5Ghz. Roku devices, if they are older or the least expensive model (the Roku Express I believe) do not support 5Ghz. If they are then great, no need to continue.
If not and you believe they should be, your eeros might be using a DFS band and Roku devices do not support DFS bands. Only the 6E Pro supports DFS that I’m aware of. I’m not sure if the eero Max 7 does or not.
I have a bunch of Roku… I have an Ultra that is about six years old; I have two Express+ about the same age (they are early enough models that they have not just HDMI, but also composite output); I have a Premier that is about three years old; and an Express 4k+. None of my mine are the ‘Stick’ versions.
When I say I get the occasional glitch… every once in a while when I am moving through the menus it will crash and I will need to restart the app. I have been having the identified problem of crashes when scrolling too far down in the guide. On the oldest devices I will sometimes get the issue where it show 4x3 programs in the upper left surrounded by green screen (if I restart the Roku it solves that problem).
These really don’t impact my viewing very much. Switching over to Ethernet where I could, and improving my Wifi really helped. A couple of well-placed mesh repeaters helped. I like the overall concept of the system and am hopeful that the update will continue to improve it.
I’m not disputing anything you said - just wondering about your theory of why there might be problems. This morning my Roku 3820x which had been working just fine yesterday, repeatedly failed on TabloTV “Live” TV – crashes the second you go down to a live channel. Tablo playback works just fine, and the Roku works just fine for its other streaming functions such as movies from Prime.
Yesterday I hypothesized that the Roku itself was overheating, or something, but I just plugged it back in after an hour or so of completely unplugged and it failed immediately on Tablo Live. As soon as the cursor gets to an actual channel number, TabloTV drops immediately to Roku main menu.
I’m trying to guess the difference between Tablo Live and Tablo playback. Clearly, my Roku responds differently to the two types of display requests. Whould “live” require a different bandwith than “playback”? Different handshaking?
I will check some of my other Rokus that were working yesterday to see if this is a specific device failure, or something more network-wide. Hmmmm…
I don’t believe there’s a difference in bandwidth – as you suggested, that doesn’t make sense. However, in order to play live television it needs to buffer and then cach that data to the puck in order for it to be transmitted wirelessly.
In the past, Tablo was not getting enough of a playback buffer and would continuously crash the Roku devices. Since your STBs are a bit older, maybe it’s similar. Especially when you consider how little memory they havve.
Very good observations. Keep this up and continue to report back here and to Tablo (maybe @ TabloTV if you come up with something big)!
What is “STB”? I have had the Roku that failed this morning and two others in the house running continuous live on the same channel, for 3-4 hours, no problems. The one that failed was similar in failure mode to various other tests over the last week. Bring up the TabloTV app on the Roku, do a quick replay of a recorded show for a minute, then switch to “Live”. The guide comes up fine, One click down is the grid heading and (I think) that always works. One move click down to the first of the actual channels crashes the app to the Roku main menu. This morning I took that Roku out for an hour (removed power to it also), but after the hour, it failed identically. Pulled out and unpowered it. 2-3 hours later, plugged it back into the same place it was before and it has been playing live tv for 3-4 hours. (If the hours sound odd - my day began at 3am).
A minute ago, Prime sent me 2 new 3820X2s that I ordered when I thought my problems were mostly old Rokus. We’ll see if new Roku makes a difference (but the one it would replace is also a 3820X)…
Good thing I don’t have anything better to do with my life. H
Also got a Tablo 4th gen 4-tuner and a 2TB disk to see where that end goes.
More context - we live about 15 miles from Portland Oregon tv towers, but have a good sized hill in the way of direct line of sight. About 2 years back I played with a flimsy square OTA antenna and got some channels, but not much. With this Tablo project I bought a little desktop antenna the is about the shape of the old coke bottle - I think it was $25 or so - just placed it on a desktop upstairs and it brought in over 100 stations without any special placement. I wanted to see if it made sense to be doing this at all. Just mentioning this because I wonder the antenna might be involved in any of these issues.
I’m curious why you would replace one Roku with the same model? If that’s the model that’s not working… Sorry if I’m missing something here. You’ve been very detailed with your posts and my brain cannot seem to keep up this evening!
Another thing you can try is to force clear the cache (which also reboots the Roku). This has helped with numerous problems throughout the years, but as others have mentioned, the guide issue seems to stem from the latest release. Tablo has stated in the past that it’s hard to push out updates through Roku. There’s a lengthy delay between submission and acceptance.