Sorry Tablo - TiVo has beaten you to the punch

What is making people think that the Rovi buyout of TiVo is a bad thing?

Yes they bought the hardware patents. Would they use these to build products that are inferior to what TiVo was building before? That makes absolutely no sense.

Would they cease honoring the lifetime subscriptions or increase the monthly and yearly rates? And alienate the 10 million TiVo customers they just acquired? Why would they want to do that?

It would be helpful if someone who thinks the Rovi buyout of TiVo is a bad thing provides some facts and their opinions about those facts. If the Rovi buyout is bad for TiVo that may help make Tablo a better option but let’s not just assume it is bad without the facts. Anything short of that is a waste of our time.

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Well stated. I have a huge DVD collection and an Amazon Prime membership. I watch a lot of shows for which I only need the last 3 or 4 episodes that aired. I also want the occasional great movie that comes along that is not available for free with my Amazon Prime. So my old 2 tuner TiVo works better for me. But also having a Tablo with a big hard drive just for collecting movies and entire seasons of my favorite shows would be a nice addition. Who doesn’t want a huge digital library of TV & movies that can be summoned on demand? I already have a new Apple TV that I got in anticipation of Tablo’s app so I may go that route someday.

I am not going to say that the buyout IS a bad thing - just that it could be a bad thing. While I have recommended TiVo in the past for certain users with certain needs, I have a hard time doing that at this time. Before recommding TiVo to someone new to OTA DVRs, I would have to see how this shakes out and right now - way too soon to know.

The problem with Rovi and the patents is not that they might want to use them to build hardware - it is that they are known notoriously as patent trolls - acquiring patents and then over enforcing them super vigorously by generating nuisance lawsuits to generate income or to get other companies to pay licensing fees to them. Many times, their patents are way too general to be legal, and so they sue companies trying to innovate with new software and ideas over violations of these generic idea patents. Fortunately, they have been losing these suits (research their loss to Netflix and Amazon) - but other companies have just decided to settle rather than fight them (Hulu).

Tivo owns way more than hardware patents. They also own a ton of software patents. In many cases, Rovi does not want to use these to develop better hardware systems. In fact, Rovi officials have made statements implying that they do not really have an interest in being in the hardware business - while the company officially notes that they have not made any decisions to exit the hardware business (which they would likely have to say to avoid a mass exodus of customers) ( http://www.multichannel.com/news/content/rovi-no-decision-exiting-consumer-hardware-biz/405443 ). Likely, Rovi instead wants to use these patents to charge licensing fees and to pursue lawsuits or perhaps find “partners” to take over the hardware end.

The merger may be a great deal for Rovi, but the question is whether or not they will continue to develop and innovate their DVR products or will they sell that part off or will it just get little attention and die off. They may put a lot of effort into new devices and TiVo may continue to be a contender. Or they might not and customers may see fewer innovations and fewer bug fixes. This can be concerning during this period when ATSC 3.0 will be coming and DVR manufacturers will be needing to come out with new hardware/software to handle the new standards. The problem is that we don’t know yet.

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2016/05/05/tivo-rovi-merger/id=68811/


I don’t see that much has changed yet but you make a good point. Let’s see what happens in the next 6-18 months.

I am currently using an old series 4 TiVo Premiere now but would like to go back to Tablo and use it with my Apple TV and two Amazon Fire TVs when Tablo has added a few features that I really want. I am optimistically thinking that my old TiVo will hang on until then.

When my old TiVo Premiere does die, I will do one of the following:

  1. Buy a 4-tuner Tablo if they have implemented “keep only X shows”, multiple delete and channel surfing by then.
  2. If (1) hasn’t happened then I’ll buy a TiVo OTA DVR if they have a 4-tuner with at least 2TB and it includes a lifetime subscription. (If Rovi hasn’t made such big changes that this can’t happen.)
  3. If neither (1) or (2) has happened I’ll have to look at the other OTA DVR technology options being offered at that time. I’m sure by then there will be some really cool stuff out there.

Both the technology manufacturers and the technology are constantly changing. They have got us all over a barrel. We purchase which products best meet our needs today and then regret not having waited until tomorrow when we want to spend money again for the latest and greatest. I guess the best thing is just to be happy with what we’ve got … for at least 2 years :wink:

It is extremely easy to open the Roamio and put in a larger hard drive. That was the first thing I did when I got my Roamio a couple years ago. Be aware it will probably void your warranty. Wasn’t a concern for me.

I think the concern is that Rovi will ride roughshod over the customers, like it did with FanTV.

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Here’s the deal… It has to work!!! I looked at both the Tablo and the Tivo and bought a Tablo only to find it doesn’t work. Maybe I got a bad one but from the current reviews I read I think my problems were common. I sadly returned mine to Amazon after hours on the support line with the Tablo guys.

The problem is it just wouldn’t stay connected. It was easy to get up and running but if you tried to watch on more than one device it started giving “Tuner errors” and all the devices dropped. I tried my iphone, ipad, firestick, and Roku’s. All played like a champ for about 3 or 4 minutes and that was it. They had me degrade my recording speed but that did not help. I think they are just trying to do more than the box can handle at this point. Or you could say the software does not have the safeguards to handle the stress on the system.

I would buy on again in a heartbeat if it worked. Now, as much as I hate to, am going to Best Buy tomorrow and picking up a Tivo. If the base box works then I will add a Tivo Stream so I can watch it on my Firesticks.

The only thing I did not like about the Tablo support was them trying to blame my network right off the bat. Nothing is wrong with my network. They kind of lost me at that point and I returned it. I saw real quick where this was going. I suspect, like most small companies, they are too quick to release software to the market. Instead of an in-house controlled test environment they depend on uncontrolled Beat Testing. I suspect that the cost of in-house controlled testing is prohibited. I come from the mainframe world and know uncontrolled testing leads to these kind of errors but it seems to be the way of the PC. I think it causes the death of many a small company like this one.

I just hope TIVO doesn’t disappoint. I am determined to cut the cord from cable and the DVR is going to be the determining factor. I don’t record but the wife does and have to keep her happy!!

It would be fun to run a survey and see how many of the people on this discussion forum are happy with their Tablo. This wouldn’t be a scientific sampling, as this forum probably attracts a lot of people having issues with their Tablo, plus a fair number of true enthusiasts.

As for me, I purchased the Tablo in February of 2015. Initially I was thrilled with the product, only to suffer through the Roku disaster. I ended up buying three Nexus Players to augment my three Roku 3’s just so my Tablo would be functional again (after getting tired of waiting for the eventual Roku fix). Since the Roku fix became available, I am back to being thrilled with my Tablo again. I haven’t reset my Tablo in months (and months), my wife is thrilled with the Tablo now, she describes it as an “appliance” that is just as dependable as the refrigerator. High praise from someone wanted to junk the Tablo in the midst of the Roku fiasco.

So on this forum, there are a lot of people having trouble with their Tablo setup. But, I think there is a silent majority who are thrilled with their Tablo and have no reason to post on this discussion forum. For those having problems, I feel your pain. I lurk around this forum and offer some helpful thoughts if I can.

All I can say is that a Tablo installation has a lot of connected parts in most cases (cable modem, router, wireless, switches, Tablo, external hard drive, antenna, remote clients). There is a lot of places for something to go wrong and it can be a bugger trying to identify the culprit. I personally messed around with my antenna, pre-amp, dist-amp setup for a couple weeks before I found a setup and antenna location that worked really well at my house. My biggest issue had nothing to do with the Tablo, but it would have been too easy just to blame the Tablo without any justification for this position.

My best advice, based on 18 months of reading this forum, is to first make sure your antenna setup is rock solid. Don’t split your incoming antenna away from your Tablo until you are absolutely sure your antenna setup is working while just driving your Tablo. If you then want to split the antenna signal directly to your TV’s, consider purchasing a dist amp sooner rather than later. I split my incoming antenna signal six ways through a dist amp and I have no reception issues whatsoever.

Next, take the wireless component out of the equation, even if have to temporarily run ethernet wires up and down your hallways for testing purposes. So many problems are blamed on the Tablo, when they are eventually traced back to poor wireless signal. In my house, wireless N is pretty solid, but I am lucky to get wireless AC to make it forty feet through a couple walls. I bit the bullet and ran wired ethernet everywhere in my house. It was painful to accomplish, but nothing beats the dependability of wired ethernet. I understand that Tablo advertises its wireless capabilities, but, why wouldn’t you use wired ethernet if you could? It is just one less place for things to go wrong.

Finally, if you have gone the route of wired ethernet (and you should if possible), buy an appropriately sized switch and hook up everything to the switch. Run a single ethernet wire from your wireless router to the switch and hook up every other wired ethernet connection to the switch. Basically, all my wireless router does is provide internet connectivity and wireless connections for my phones and tablets. All other network traffic travels only across a 16 port switch, relieving a majority of network traffic from the wireless router. I am not smart enough to explain why this works so well, but, I know that my network became rock solid once I adopted this connection method. I imagine that the explanation has a lot to do with the various wired ethernet devices communicating directly across the switch. I also assigned static IP addresses (actually DHCP reservations) to all ethernet devices so that I never have to wonder if an IP address has changed. You shouldn’t have to do this, but I did, and my network is very solid.

I think you can solve a lot of problems by just ensuring that your antenna setup is rock solid and by using wired ethernet, appropriately configured, whenever possible. Hopefully someone who is having problems can use some of this information to fix their issues. I did a lot of “trial and error” testing when I got the Tablo and over time I came to understand that this setup has provided me with an incredibly solid network and OTA DVR solution.

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One thing the Tablo has done is to force Tivo to rethink, introduce new products and reduce pricing. So if Tivo is your choice you can sort of say Tablo made it better. Let’s face it, in many ways Tablo is the small new competitor. Just a hint to Nuvyyo, if you made your platform open, it might be an excellent differentiation. So scrappy newcomer vs the “big guy”. As we’ve seen with the recent Tivo acquistion however, there’s risk even with choosing the 'big guy". I’m hoping to see more out of Nuvyyo… to sort of see them put on some weight to be a bit more “lasting” (opening up your hardware and software will give you a lasting presence without the upfront expense btw).

Depending on your needs, Tivo can be a good choice. Not saying you can’t use Tivo in all cases, it’s just that it starts getting expensive… but if a Tivo settop does everything (and I mean everything) you need, it may sitll be ok… but don’t think it will be necessarily be cheaper and better except in some very specific cases… but there’s always going to be those few.

Oh… and obviously Tivo is a good choice if you have no problems with the costs of add on features and such…

I have a lot of friends that are Tivo users. We’re all cordcutters… so birds of a feather…

It could be reception but they might have been right about your network… I had problems at the beginning of my Tablo experience, Some people posted about changing my router. So I did, and now it’s the bees knees. Actually, the wifi is better for everything now, it even works in the garden.

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@hrosee I had similar experiences with Tablo support. I was sure it wasn’t my network but I did an upgrade of my router and WiFi anyway and still had issues with it. No matter what I did I couldn’t get streaming to work reliably and my Tablo and TV is hard wired (physical Ethernet cable). I suspect it could be that the Tablo is only 100M on the Ethernet port which could be limiting it somewhat (keep in mind that 100M doesnt really mean 100M, it’s 100Mbps which is really more like ~12MBps). I eventually just abandoned using Tablo for live TV and watching recorded content and just use it as a DVR and extract all my content to my Plex server to watch. From Plex I can watch all my content on any device, anywhere and on any TV without issue, no buffering or anything.

I like my Tablo now and it does what I need it to do. Would I prefer something else, perhaps but right now it does the job I need it to do.

Sadly, my family also no longer uses the Tablo UI (roku) due to the many frustrations. Might be better to build nice integration into Plex and make a PMS combo (tablo) tuner device and sell that. Family is at the breaking point, so I don’t encourage Tablo UI use since they’ll give it up altogether if it errors again (which I believe is very likely). So… it’s something I occasionally dabble with… just hard for me to have “alone time” to play watch the broken Tablo UI.

So… not sure of the Tablo future. But do belive a redesign away from WAMP and WebSQL might be a step in the right direction.

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Well, it’s been a week since I returned my Tablo and got a Tivo and a Tivo stream. It is a professional system that installed easily and it worked.

The Tablo is just not ready for Prime Time.

For some. For others like me, it has been a rock solid DVR for over two years that meets all my needs.

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I’m sorry it didn’t work out for you and I’m happy you found a solution that did. I’ve had Tablo for 6 months. I use it with five Rokus, a windows PC, and Android mobile devices and it’s been VERY stable for me. I love being able to watch recordings from any location I choose, and I appreciate the Tablo program guide license model.

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I’ll echo what snowcat and StuTomato have said… Tablo has been a solid performer for me. So much so, that I’ve had a problem finding the time to watch everything I have recorded, the downside of having a 4 tuner model.

Unfortunately, for those who’s antenna and network are not Tablo capable, it may not be a good solution for them. Since getting my Tablo, I’ve upgraded my router and antenna and it has been performing beautifully with my Roku streaming sticks, windows 10 chrome browser, and my Android based Samsung Galaxy S6.

I really believe that if people ensure that all devices are running the latest software, have a good antenna that gives them a solid signal, and a really good router, then their Tablo will work just as well as mine.

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Any location until it needs to be re-paired and you won’t be back on LAN for length of time.

Plus, the annoying and seemingly more frequent - Player Error - Could not play live stream.

I primarily use Tablo to grab recordings for watching on my long flights. That function isn’t even officially supported, go figure.

For home OTA DVR it’s hard to beat the convenience and economy of a used Tivo Premiere 3 w/lifetime guide and upgraded HD.

  • I don’t travel frequently, so I’ve never been unable to access my recordings. My remote access has been infrequent, but within the local area. The vast majority of my viewing is from appliances attached to my home network. I can understand that it’s a problem for people that do and for people who wish to access their Tablo from, say, a vacation home. It would be a useful advantage for those people to be able to remotely authenticate. I’m unsure if the lack of this function is because Tablo just hasn’t gotten around to improving it or if it’s a concern that such a capability may lead to people allowing/reselling widespread access to content they’ve recorded (and potential lawsuits from content providers that may result). The current solution is a pretty effective assurance that client appliances are ‘intimate’ with the home network where the Tablo is installed.
  • I’ve NEVER received a ‘Player Error - Could not play live stream’. I’ve also had only one or two ‘Loading Please Wait’ messages in all the time I’ve had the product.
  • I don’t think Tablo has claimed any direct support for offline viewing. I can see where it would be useful for you while flying. It seems that many users on this forum have found solutions for making offline viewing of recordings fairly painless.
  • I looked at Tivo for quite a while before I found Tablo. Their ‘lifetime’ guide only being for the life of that piece of equipment (not covering a second unit nor any replacement units if hardware fails or newer models come out) made the solution much more expensive long term, in my opinion. The alternative- monthly fee for program guide- was far too expensive for the content it provided, in my judgment.
    Again, I’m glad you found a solution that meets your needs and has a cost you’re happy with. I also have a solution that meets my needs and a cost that I’m happy with.
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Thank you for clarification but why don’t you edit your post to more accurately reflect “any location I choose" statement? Obviously, “any location” seems to be only within your LAN? That’s primarily why I replied.

And if you rarely ever stream LIVE TV outside your LAN you will likely never encounter the “could not play live stream” error.

I’ve previously mentioned what works for my family in the living room and simply repeated it here. I’m a decent enough e-tech to keep practically any old TiVo running for a long, long time.

I didn’t say Only within my home network because that would not be accurate. As I just said, my remote access has been infrequent (as a percentage of overall usage) but I have used my Tablo outside of my home network without any problems.
More generally, ‘any location’ meant I can watch recorded content from any TV in the house or my PC or phones/tablets that I use inside the house or outside the house. I don’t need to use the appliance that’s directly connected to DVR, and multiple users can view content on different appliances simultaneously.