Lifetime Guide Subscription and future ATSC 3.0 Channels

Wondering if a lifetime guide subscription is purchased and future devices utilize the ATSC 3.0 standard only (i.e. way down the line in the future), does the ability to transfer the guide subscription to a new device mean that however that future state ATSC 3.0 Tablo device might function, the subscription will continue to mean that we would receive the same guide functionality even though many aspects of the technology in the device will be 100% different?

I would not expect that lifetime guide would be in effect for any ATSC 3.0 Tablos.

Reasons: 1. The company is moving away from lifetime subscriptions.
2. All the guide data might be in the broadcast anyway, defeating the need for an external service.

There still might be a need for a premium subscription, but it is still too early to speculate.

Although much of the current guide data is available via broadcast EPG, a subscription also provided the copyrighted graphics and mostly a facility to sort a DB to schedule… a series for example.

Maybe ATSC 3.0 also dumbed downed marketed as Nextgen TV may have a new life and the current program may reach the end of its life.

Today, TV guide data within the broadcast (PSIP) varies wildly between ‘mostly complete’ to ‘spotty’ to ‘almost non-existent’. This is why we don’t use PSIP for any Tablo processes because it’s just not dependable.

TBD whether this gets wholesale improvements with ATSC 3.0 that would allow us to depend on that data.

It’s still very early days despite the hype and/or excitement from certain early adopters so any speculation about future products that would support this standard is just that… speculation.

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I have a HDHomeRun HDHR5-4K - which has two ATSC 3.0 tuners. In the Austin, TX market, they are listed as “live”. However, they are on a low-power frequency (the reception is better than the old ATSC 1.0 stations on this tower), and only one of the four stations are actually broadcasting (the other 3 channels have no video). The Audio is AC-4, which is limited to which devices can play the station (Roku and FireTV don’t support it yet, but Windows apps and XBox One apps do), and the picture is still standard HD (not 4K).

The TV stations keep changing what they are broadcasting and appear to be in a “testing mode”. ATSC 3.0 is not ready for “prime-time”… I think SiliconDust jumped the gun in bringing their device to market - there are many issues. But it is fun taking a “sneak peak” at the future…

SiliconDust just released their latest firmware, and had to make the ATSC 3.0 channels a 1XX-X channel (for example 42-1 KEYE-CD which is the CBS station is 142-1 on their system). Channel guide is working.

As for what a DVR may or may not do - I wouldn’t bring something to the market, and deal with the “wrath of the consumer” at this point, as there are many things that are still in the “alpha” phase (not even “beta” at this point).


I don’t think any user should have been surprised that ATSC 3.0 requires AC-4 audio. It’s part of the standard. And I also don’t think anyone should have expected 4K in the initial broadcasts. The cost of 4K cameras and equipment to produce inhouse 4K video could be more then the value of some small stations.

Broadcasters were able to apply for an experimental ATSC 3.0 broadcast license. If a broadcaster moves forward with a regular license it should be broadcasting correct ATSC 3.0. Hdhomerun just exposed the phony baloney.

This is what I’m afraid of and makes me hesitant on the subscription. I’ve had my unit for a month now and have just come out of the free trial. I don’t have a history of being in the Tablo ‘ecosystem’ and wonder if this segment of devices is at a crossroads. I am in the Phoenix AZ area where I suspect ATSC 3.0 is going to move fast. Most of us cut the cord to avoid ongoing subscriptions. I’m not averse to a one time ‘lifetime’ type subscription as I can justify it as part of joining the ‘ecosystem’, but if it doesn’t carry over into the next version of the tech, it is much less appealing. Especially, as you said the new technology might make some of it obsolete anyway.

If you believe that ATSC 3.0 will be completely operational and capable of replacing all of your ATSC 1.0 channels in less than 3 years, the lifetime subscription may not be the way to go.

The stations that do convert to ATSC 3.0 must still broadcast their ATSC 1.0 signal for an additional 5 years, so a lifetime subscription will still save you money if you continue to use your existing Tablo for more than 3 years whether or not if it would apply to a new ATSC 3.0 Tablo.

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My understanding is that the lifetime subscription is tied to the user, not the device.

So if an ATSC 3 Tablo comes out, I would hope that my lifetime subscription would have it covered.

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Dreams could come true but maybe you’ll need a premium service to unlock DRM.

Likely the life of the service as well. There is no distinction as to who/what lifetime equates to, from what I’ve understood.

3.0 could start a life of it’s own… maybe.

I think this is the gist of the question. Whether the future ATSC 3.0 Tablo device can or cannot use enhanced ways of getting to the program information and artwork, etc in the stream, does a lifetime subscription mean I would continue to get the features whether it works out in the “ATSC transmission stream” or tablo continues to obtain that information via their own solution (as they do today as you mentioned) ?

:clock12: since we’re asking about things that will happen in the future… :clock1230: When the new lettered standard comes out, will Nuvyyo invent a device to convert the OTA DVRs we already paid for :clock3: to do new things so we don’t to contribute any more money to your profits? :clock6: We’ll still be expecting firmware upgrades without fees! :clock630: Of course this will contractually include unlimited tech support :clock9: as well updates to app for devices.

When new things come out, will you keep adding new features without charging us any more money? And will you start a membership program for us? Can’t you sustain a profitable business with a onetime purchase while contentiously improving and supporting it?

I know this was a bit tongue in cheek (and it gave me a good chuckle). I fully expect that future hardware purchases will be needed if a standard change occurs. But if a particular service is marketed as “ lifetime”, I think it is reasonable to expect that Tablo could reassure us that the 14 day guide data and artwork and remote connect will remain regardless of the future hardware we purchase.

While this future prediction is based on the presumption ATSC 3.0 / NextGen TV is just a progression of the current standard and will function the same… only better. LOL

That’s why they’re marketing it, not because they’ll be able to track users - but it’ll be so much the same that they want to spend the money to upgrade their equipment - to do the same thing… only better.

Because it’ll generate more profits, just sending out different quality content. Your presumption is there won’t be any DRM (beyond primary channel) or limitation precluding DVR use. Just a different tuner. Local stations make the mass investment… just to broadcast a better signal?

It’s unlikely it’ll be a straight forward conversion in the years to come. In the beginning, little may change, when it matures, TV as we know it may no longer exists - who really knows? Yet, give us an answer now, please.

It will be interesting to see. From what I understand, the ATSC 3.0 OTA broadcast will be independent from the broadband internet/interactive features (and all of the big brother features that will no doubt bring). This makes sense because much of the country still does not have access to broadband internet. I think that is why a DVR would continue to work.

You don’t need high-speed full time stream to get an unlock DRM code, that makes pay TV available to those as well :frowning:

Independent / optional… who do you think gets to decide?