With the most recent 2.1.16 firmware update, deinterlacing of 1080i video (not film) content was improved over the prior firmware however there is still significant blockiness relating to the algorithm being used. At this time, the 4 tuner Tablo cannot properly deinterlace 1080i video content. While this does not typically affect prime time TV, the deinterlacing problems are obvious if you watch sporting events including NFL football or a TV game show on a 1080i channel.
@TabloTV - It should be easy for you to watch a football game and see the issue for yourself. As this is apparently not an issue for the 2 tuner Tablo, is the inability of the 4 tuner Tablo to properly deinterlace 1080i something that can be corrected in firmware or is it a hardware limitation? I recognize you have lots of bugs and features to address but 1080i video deinterlacing needs to be a high priority item.
I agree. I have noticed too when I walk closer to my television that the deinterlacing still isn’t right. You can sometimes see significant jaggies on what should be straight lines. It seems to me this technical problem was solved years ago, so I wonder why this is proving to be such a barrier with this device?
We addressed the deinterlacing issues in both the 2.1.14 and 2.1.16 releases, and we did extensive testing to verify that they were working as intended.
There are only two things I can think of that would cause a noticeable difference for you:
- The Tablo plays video at 30 FPS (which is relatively standard). This isn’t usually a problem, as most Sports broadcasters send out video at 30 FPS because most video devices would have deinterlacing issues at 60 FPS playing at 1080.
It’s possible that the broadcaster in your area is sending out 60 FPS instead - for whatever reason.
This still isn’t a problem.The Tablo will transcode the video and bring it down to 30 FPS in that process.
However, if you were to watch the ‘native’ broadcast directly through an antenna, you might notice a difference. Most people can’t, but same can - and this may be what your experiencing, and would be the only cause for a noticeable difference.
Or:
-You might be watching an old recording that was recorded before the 2.1.14 and 2.1.16 firmware updates were released. These updates are not retroactive and won’t affect any old recordings.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but there still is a problem with how 4 tuner Tablo handles 1080i video (not film).
Yes there was a significant improvement in the latest firmware update but the issue is not resolved.
The easiest test is to watch a 1080i broadcast of “The Price is Right” on CBS and see the image degrade as contestants run, jump and scream. There is also macroblocking on NFL games during motion which should be obvious if you compare it to the same broadcast directly to the TV or via another source. You may not be bothered by these issues on a Tablet or phone although you still should be able to see them. Viewing on a regular TV or big screen, picture quality matters and these issues are obvious. Noticeably poor 1080i video picture quality is not an issue for satellite, cable or Tivo whole home streaming solutions so there is something wrong with the Tablo that needs to be fixed.
I tend to agree. I’ve been paying closer attention since Tablosupport posted above. This is most noticeable to me when I watch the 11 o’clock news on my local CityTV Toronto station. The way the fast moving logos at the beginning of the program look live on my television is not the same as it looks recorded on the Tablo. It looks jaggie and choppy on the Tablo.
The way the fast moving logos at the beginning of the program look live on my television is not the same as it looks recorded on the Tablo. It looks jaggie and choppy on the Tablo.
Unfortunately, this will be a problem regardless of 1080i or 720p or any sort of deinterlacing in-between. I think of this using my experience transcoding high bitrate content using Handbrake (BD->MP4). If you want a really good encoding, with minimal loss of quality, you start really slowing down the encoding process. You may even need to use a two-pass encoding process to get good quality. My BD transcodes typically run at 8-12 FPS on a 3.2GHz Core i7.
The Tablo simply can’t do that (it seems). It needs to encode in real-time (30fps). The tuners seem to be in charge of the real-time encoding of the incoming content. While the show’s producer had plenty of time (and resources) to do a high-quality encode of your OTA content (high quality, high bit-rate MPEG-2) - the $300 Tablo does not have these (either time - realtime, nor resources - consumer-level hardware encoders). The Tablo also needs to store in a format and bitrate that is going to be compatible with a lot of devices.
I am also frequently annoyed at the quality of the encodes - especially as the picture turns to mush with a lot of movement or change. I really hope that some more horsepower can be squeezed out of the Tablo to improve the encoding quality without increasing the bitrate - but I have my doubts.
As it is - the quality is good enough for my main viewing areas. And, when I find myself with my nose against the screen to prove to myself that the quality is not good – I decide it must be good enough.
It is possible that what we are seeing are limitations of the device and/or the current firmware and not specific deinterlacing issues. I am satisfied with the picture quality Tablo provides. I’ve just been more aware of it since the whole deinterlacing problem and discussion came up.
@cedarrapidsboy - You bring up some interesting points and you may be correct that the Tablo has insufficient power to do a high quality re-encode? Watching sporting events with lots of motion tends to be the most difficult for the Tablo and unfortunately the picture quality is reminiscent of HD YouTube feed. One question thats unclear is why does the 4 tuner model seem to be more affected? You don’t hear much feedback on these issues from 2 tuner Tablo owners. What is different about the hardware in the 4 tuner model?
Tablo is a product we all know has great potential and there is a massive laundry list of features to bring it up to date with features typically seen on most DVRs but poor (video) picture quality combined with the other current limitations may make it a difficult sell in this house.
@TabloTV - HD video isn’t an issue for other whole home streaming solutions such as satellite, cable or TiVo, why is it an issue for Tablo? Considering there is already a ~15 second delay to re-encode before streaming which is significantly longer than the competition, its starting to look like the Tablo hardware/software is underpowered and/or incapable of performing the simple task of re-encoding and streaming HD video. I would respecfully ask you to have a look at the re-encoding process on the Tablo and make some adjustments to improve picture quality and reduce the lag time for those using it with hard wired ethernet connections.
@7up - I just got my 2-tuner Tablo set up yesterday and the problems that you mention are very evident even on the 2-tuner model. I noticed it just watching the local news broadcast and Jimmy Fallon last night. I can’t imagine what it does with a sports broadcast.
@TabloTV - What I don’t understand is why you bill this product as “Unleash Your HDTV.” The fact is that every single network in my area broadcasts in 1080i. I feel like I am now in a box and am not sure that I can keep this product because it does not deliver true HDTV. Down-scaling the recordings to the recommended 720p did not seem to help the issue either. In fact it seemed to make the overall quality of the stream worse. The biggest reason that I got this device is so I can cancel DirecTV and still watch NASCAR races that are broadcast on the networks. Granted I haven’t seen a race broadcast through the Tablo but based on my initial experience I have serious doubts that the motion of the races will be accurately represented.
@TabloTV Please indicate whether this is a limitation of the hardware or the software. And if there is a plan to let users stream at 60 FPS in the future? Or is the problem not related to FPS at all? Why is there not a 1080i setting to record at? This is very important to me. I don’t have a problem laying down $150 for a lifetime plan with you guys if I know that this is something that can or will be addressed but if I don’t feel that it can be addressed I will have to return the device as it doesn’t seem to deliver true HD content out of the box.
I’m using a 2-Tuner Tablo, v2.1.20, Hardwired - gigabit, AppleTV (1080p) w AirPlay from iPad Mini Retina, going to a 47" Vizio LEDTV (1080p)
I don’t seem to have these problems with any other content on the AppleTV and I’ve played with and tweaked just about every setting I can find on all of the devices in use but please chime in if anyone feels I’m missing something.
@okcgeoff, it has a lot to do with the clients that the Tablo are supporting. Roku, Appletv, tablets, and phones only support progressive content and are limited to a max of 30 FPS.
So there can’t be a 1080i setting and there can’t be a 60 FPS setting.
I am fine watching sports on my 2-tuner Tablo, and I can always use an antenna connected directly to my TV for no compromises at all.
@snowcat Thanks for the info. I didn’t know that. But I still feel based on what I’ve seen that the issue has to be with encoding the 1080i content. I’ve watched a lot of 1080p content on the AppleTV that doesn’t seem to struggle with motion at all at 30 FPS.
Also since I am new to the cord-cutting game I have a question for you. You mention that you can use an antenna directly connected to the tv if you want. Do you have an additional antenna? Or do you split yours off to different rooms to your house? In reading the handbook for my antenna it states that you need an amplified antenna if you plan on running it through a splitter. My antenna and tablo are right next to my splitter but my antenna is not amplified. How is yours set up?
Also since I am new to the cord-cutting game I have a question for you. You mention that you can use an antenna directly connected to the tv if you want. Do you have an additional antenna? Or do you split yours off to different rooms to your house? In reading the handbook for my antenna it states that you need an amplified antenna if you plan on running it through a splitter. My antenna and tablo are right next to my splitter but my antenna is not amplified. How is yours set up?
You don’t necessarily need an amplified antenna… just a good antenna and then you can put a line amplifier close to your antenna, before the splitter.
My antenna is in the attic, I have a line amplifier up there before the long run to the wiring closet, and the splitter is in the closet. I actually have two amplifiers in the system, one for the long run, and one for the 8-way (whole house) splitter.
@snowcat Thanks for the info. I didn't know that. But I still feel based on what I've seen that the issue has to be with encoding the 1080i content. I've watched a lot of 1080p content on the AppleTV that doesn't seem to struggle with motion at all at 30 FPS.
Also since I am new to the cord-cutting game I have a question for you. You mention that you can use an antenna directly connected to the tv if you want. Do you have an additional antenna? Or do you split yours off to different rooms to your house? In reading the handbook for my antenna it states that you need an amplified antenna if you plan on running it through a splitter. My antenna and tablo are right next to my splitter but my antenna is not amplified. How is yours set up?
I have an antenna running through coax the length of our house. Antenna had to be on the west end due to the electric stuff on the east end, trees and so on. I run through all that coax through the attic, down through a wall to our basement. In the basement I have a 1 to 8 splitter. I take cables from that 1/8 splitter to the kitchen, which is another 20’ from the first splitter. I run 2 cables from that 1/8 splitter up the walls a few inches into the front room. At each “cable outlet” in the front room is another splitter. Where the TV sits one cable goes from the dual jack to the TV, another to a DVD recorder. Then the other wall jack with splitter has a cable that goes to the Tablo.
So I run from antenna through 50’ of cable in the attic, down the wall to the basement to the big splitter, and from there, up the walls to multiple wall jacks with dual connections for the cable to device lengths of cable. Each device goes at least through that 1-8 larger splitter in the basement ceiling, many of our devices, including the TV, DVD recorder and Tablo also then go through a second splitter. Every wall jack i install has a splitter built into the jack or wall plate so that there’s 2 connections at each spot. (My wife couldn’t make up her mind where she wanted the TV for a while so i just put a coax jack or connection on every wall in the living room and we added a TV to the kitchen so I had to run coax to that room)
I forgot to mention, from antenna on west end to splitter on est end of house, to those places I mentiioned, well, we have a TV in the WEST end of our larger family room downstairs so there’s a cable that runs from the splitter in the basement ceiling BACK over the ceiling the full length of the house then down the wall to the TV there, and its also split to an older VCR. That TV is fed through 2 splitters and cable that runs the length of the house two times!
No signal issues at all but I use the larger better RG6 cable and have stopped using the 59.
We are down in a low area not far from the river and surrounded by trees. I’ve not used an aplified antenna since about 1989 when i had a 30’ tower with an antenna rotor and amp on the mast and could pull in stations from almost all over the place - even stations 100 miles away. Now I get pretty much anything within 45 miles.
I do have two antennas in my living room, but both are small. My Mohu leaf connects to the Tablo, and Tablo gave a free one to all the original pre-order buyers, which I use to connect to my TV.