Winegard FL5500A FlatWave Amped

[CraigRoyce]

You.

The second post made that rather obvious.

[RetiredEngineer]

My only ‘nay saying’ regards using a splitter/combiner to sum 2 antennas and then presuming all is gained and nothing is lost.

Antennas follow basic conservation of energy laws so you don’t get more in one direction / frequency without giving it up elsewhere. Sorry.

My input here was intended to provide some insight into the ‘voodoo’ and make things more scientific and understandable. No intentions otherwise.

Larry

[RetiredEngineer]

@CraigRoyce

Amazing how the nay-sayers are finding ways to tell you how and why something doesn’t work - even though they haven’t done it themselves. Some of these people SHOULD propose actual solutions rather than whining, bitching and complaining. For someone who has had a boatload of problems himself, his credibility is suspect. His prior posts on his own antenna reception, cable lengths and noise are absolute BS. Physician heal thyself instead of trying to intimidate others with your pseudo-knowledge. If it works, it ain’t luck.

Sorry if you took my reference to “luck” the wrong way, Craig. I meant that summing 2 RF signals as you describe is unpredictable voodoo if you don’t observe exact fractional wavelength spacings, don’t compensate for exact TV channel RF frequency, don’t keep both feedlines the same length, don’t combine and terminate them to maintain impedances correctly, etc. Antenna and RF engineers, myself included, do this as part of the design process. Perhaps you too have done these things, and if so, my apoliogy for assuming you had left any of this to chance.

In general, experimentally combining 2 antenna signals at RF in a UHF television scenario like HDTV is a zero sum game and thus is neither sold or encouraged in the industry. If 2 antenna with combiner solutions were advantageous, you better believe that antenna manufacturers and installers would have used them gladly over the 60 or 70 years of trying to improve OTA TV reception. Moreover, current digital TV / ATSC puts huge additional demands on phase versus amplitude waveform integrity, and strong signals are not neccesarily received / demodulated with better quality
If phase distorted. Summing / combining has additional penalties in this area compared to a single, better antenna.

I ask you very explicitly to please show us ANY EVIDENCE OF my “prior posts of antenna reception, cable lengths, or noise as absolute BS” as you so claim. I have taught graduate level RF engineering courses since 1977 to several thousand studends over the years, and take offense.

I welcome your proof or your apology.

Thank you,
Larry

[CraigRoyce]

You ain’t getting anything from me. Move on (an apology r u kidding me?). Have the last word if you so badly need to have a last word (as we saw with your arguments with PhilSoft). Your credentials don’t mean anything to me - I’ve worked with stacks and antenna arrays successfully for over a decade implementing them for myself and others. They work, this solution in this thread works, who really cares what YOU think when something actually, in reality WORKS. Try being helpful sometime without constantly preaching to others what someone “should” be doing according to Lawrence 3:16.

Let JDoe enjoy his television viewing and recording because he has a workable and practical solution and quit being a Joe Btfsplk.

RE: “My input here was intended to provide some insight into the ‘voodoo’ and make things more scientific and understandable. No intentions otherwise.” ROTFL

We’re sure there will be a following post from RE - his last word of justification… All too predictable LOL.

[RetiredEngineer]

As I have maintained throughout, the use of stacking and phasing is a proven, standard technique, Whomever offers it is correct, and your original advice was sound.

The ability to achieve the gain is both theoretically known and demonstrated (as you apparently have) in actual use. I added that with these gains come losses in other directions and frequencies, a scientific fact. Getting only the gains in the directions as well as the many TV channels without suffering any losses is generally impossible, and thus luck or circumstances (such as all reception coming from only 1 direction) play heavily.

How you can take this set of comments to begin an attack (without any evidence) on me says a great deal about you. Your silence when asked for proof says the most. So very pathetic.

Larry

[zippy]

There obviously is only one solution to all this back and forth.

Thunderdome - two men enter one man leaves.

I’m always up for some good chainsaw action. Now we only need to decide what tablo recording quality to use for the video.

[RetiredEngineer]

@zippy

There obviously is only one solution to all this back and forth.

Thunderdome - two men enter one man leaves.

I’m always up for some good chainsaw action. Now we only need to decide what tablo recording quality to use for the video.

LMFAO !!!

The chainsaw action would be a great crowd-pleaser!

Can I offer as another possibility that Craig come over to Usenet on either or both of the 2 relevant forums, where we will welcome him to elaborate on Maxwell’s Theorem(s). (There is actually only 1, but he apparently knows of another as well.)

The Usenet folks are the genuine article. Visit:

Sci.engr.television.advanced
And
Rec.radio.amateur.antenna

Larry

[RetiredEngineer]

I have been accused in the post shown earlier in this thread, without either any reason or evidence, of providing “B.S.” in my technical replies and comments regarding antennas and related subjects.

Thus I wanted to offer the post from another recent thread which coincidentally addresses related RF discussion.

The true source of “B.S.” becomes immediately apparent here and I clearly have no problem proving my counter-claim:

(Please click on Tuner Sensitivity Issue link below)

@RetiredEngineer

That is why people consider OTA “voodoo art” even though it does follow the scientific rules of RF signal propogation and Maxwell’s theorems\equations.

What in the world are you talking about?

Maxwell’s Theorem is utterly and totally unrelated to RF. There is only 1 such theorem, not several, and it has nothing to do with RF whatsoever.

See:

  en.wikipedia.org

Maxwell’s theorem

In probability theory, Maxwell’s theorem, named in honor of James Clerk Maxwell, states that if the probability distribution of a vector-valued random variable X = ( X1, …, Xn )T is the same as the distribution of GX for every n×n orthogonal matrix G and the components are independent, then the components X1, …, Xn are normally distributed with expected value 0, all have the same variance, and all are independent. This theorem is one of many characterizations of the normal distribution. Since…

And as regards Maxwell’s Equations:

Maxwell’s Equations apply to RF propogation but only in a very abstract sense that they apply to all electrodynamic fields such as optics and acoustics. The RF engineer does not use them as a practical tool in OTA or propagation work. They are a useful and important analytical / midelling tool for generalized descriptions of how charges, currents, and fields relate.

See:

  en.wikipedia.org

Maxwell’s equations

Maxwell’s equations are a set of partial differential equations that, together with the Lorentz force law, form the foundation of classical electrodynamics, classical optics, and electric circuits. These fields in turn underlie modern electrical and communications technologies. Maxwell’s equations describe how electric and magnetic fields are generated and altered by each other and by charges and currents. They are named after the physicist and mathematician James Clerk Maxwell, who published an…

Sorry Craig. I don’t appreciate being falsely accused with no evidence to back it up.

Larry

[Kelvin_Lyons]

The best antenna is a outside antenna. Any and everything can effect reception.

[beastman]

http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/austin-tv-stations.html for Austin, TX. Search for your city.

[CraigRoyce]

If one is living in an apartment or condo that may not be possible. That’s why there is an industry for the internal Flatwave type antennas.

[Lothos]

If you really want to get froggy you can try a setup like mine. I am using two Spectrum SP697 antennas with a coupler. I have one pointing to DC and the other to Baltimore. I have the AC power going to the one that is pointing to Baltimore which is allow me to pick up a few stations from York Pennsylvania as well. It is working great with the Tablo. For the above setup you don’t need anything else either. The Antenna comes with an amp and a pre-amp. The only thing you need is to go to your Lowes or Home Depot and pick up grounding equipment. I do recommend getting quad shield coaxial cable which I bought at Lowes. Helps keep line noise down.

Antenna
http://www.spectrumantenna.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SP613&Click=564

Coupler
http://dennysantennaservice.com/2015889.html