For example without transcoding the video to h.264, you could not playback video on the Roku. The Roku cannot play MPEG-2 video which is the native format of OTA TV.
Thanks @theuser86 @snowcat thanks !
Does it mean devices like Roku, Fire are using the H.264 format to play on the TV ? I wonder if it is possible to “record” some of live stream from the Roku then…
Yes, the Roku plays h.264 video. The HDMI output on the Roku is HDCP so you cannot easily record from it. But why would you want to record from it?
The Tablo device itself records the OTA TV stream to the attached USB Hard Drive. The Tablo takes the OTA stream and transcodes the video to h.264 video and the audio to 2.0 AAC - this is stored on the USB HDD for later viewing. There is no need to record what outputs from the Roku.
@theuser86 Thanks for reply. Hmmm… I thought there’re some live stream News or Sports program from Roku or Fire that I was thinking of pause & replay.
Yes, the Roku has separate channels the play News or Sports. But those are different from the Tablo channel and have nothing to do with Tablo or OTA. For example, if you use the Netflix channel on the Roku to play a movie, you cannot just record what the Roku is outputting from Netflix.
Thanks @theuser86
I use an iPad 2. The app does not have fast load option. Live TV can take a minute to load on 2 tuner, but prerecorded loads in a couple of seconds on internal LAN. I often load 2 live TV news feeds, switch and rewind during commercials. It is more important to focus on what TABLO can do and if one doesn’t find enough good qualities, choice is there to pick something else.
The fast load option applies to all devices. The iPad app just doesn’t have the functionality to turn it off or on.
I’m not a fan of the long delay, but I think I understand why it exists. On the one hand, trans-coding to H.264 has the benefit of reduced storage requirements, is more compatible with clients like Roku, and makes it more practical to transmit via Wi-Fi, all of which I certainly do appreciate. On the other hand, that choice imposes some additional delay when tuning live TV. I have checked the “Enable fast Live TV startup” box, but I don’t think it actually makes it any faster, unless one returns to a recently viewed channel. Seems like about 11 seconds for a new channel and about 3 seconds to return to a recent channel.
Three seconds is pretty much what one would expect with any 8VSB tuner. For example, that’s about how long it takes to change channels with an HDHomeRun. 11 seconds can be painful. But then too, I don’t spend a lot of time watching live TV anyway. I can see that being important for sports fans, but then maybe Tablo isn’t the best choice for a sports fan anyway. For one thing, with Tablo, “Live TV” is actually delayed by that same 11 seconds (as compared to the HDHomeRun). That’s true, to one extent or another, with every DVR solution that I have ever used. There is always some amount of delay. So if delay is a big problem, then maybe DVR’s in general are not the best option for hard-core sports fans that want to see it happen the split second that it happens.
I have seen it suggested (repeatedly) that many of these limitations (and more) would be solved if Tablo would initially create recordings in their native format instead of immediately converting to H.264. Actually, I think that would be a great option, but it would not be without its own set of problems. For example, as a SageTV refugee, I am well aware of the difficulty of transmitting uncompressed 1080i via Wi-Fi. It can be done, but it takes a multichannel 802.11n connection, or better yet, an 802.11ac connection.
If I was a decision maker at Tablo, I wouldn’t want to count on customers having enough Wi-Fi bandwidth to stream native transport streams. By comparison, Tablo’s H.264 format is relatively easy to fit into the bandwidth of a single 802.11n channel. I’ve been enjoying how easy it is to watch Live TV on my notebook and my phone after years of struggling with SageTV. This has been especially handy during extreme weather events, most recently Tropical Storm Bill, where I just wanted to watch live. And while tuning new channels may be slow, I didn’t have any problem simultaneously streaming four channels to four different browser tabs, or four separate browser windows on my wired desktop PC. It was fun with weather news, and I can see where this could be a really powerful option for a sports fan! Assuming of course, that one is not too worried about the 11-scond delay.
On the other hand, if the initial recording were in their native format, that would open up some more possibilities. Tablo already has the ability to down-convert live TV (right?) So it’s not too hard to imagine that it could just as easily convert a native stream to any number of different H.264 variants. It would mean that Tablo would have to make the down-conversion option available to local LAN clients in addition to remote clients, but that part doesn’t seem like too big of a deal. Apparently it uses up a tuner, so that would be a potential down side, but hey, that just opens the door for a 8-tuner model, right? 
That truly would be the best of both worlds. Greatly reduced tuning delays for wired (or very good Wi-Fi) clients, without losing the option to support low-bandwidth clients, albeit, with the 11-second delay. Tablo could provide the option to convert the native recordings to H.264 during idle times and let users decide if they want to keep the native recordings for convenience of editing and such, or delete them after conversion to recover disc space. This post-processing approach would also open up the option for more advanced compression schemes, such as H.265. I’m not sure what all clients can decode H.265 at this point, but with the roll-out of 4K UHD content, it is bound to become more commonplace. For 1080p recordings, it would give us very small files and very high quality. Other than that, the only down side that I can think of is that it’s probably hard to encode in real time, but if Tablo doesn’t have to do the conversion in real time, the overhead would become less important.
I don’t know if this fits within Tablo’s current hardware limitations, but I suspect that it does. I say form experience that is not a problem to record four simultaneous native streams on a garden-variety 5400 RMS WD Green drive. Seems that there are lots of exciting possibilities for Tablo, limited only by imagination (and development dollars).
Interesting post @MrMark. The “problem” that you introduce with the multiple recordings is that it brings more complexity for the end user to manage, which in turn introduces more complex UI requirements. Not to mention vastly increased storage requirements if everything is recorded in native format. Sure they could make an 8-tuner box to allow 4 recordings and 4 transcodings to happen at the same time, but that would probably push it above an acceptable price point (yes, I know silicon is cheap. but still…)
The average user on this forum is extremely tech-savvy and understands the difference between MPEG2 and H.264. But IMO Tablo is aiming for the user who wants a little box that you can tuck away in the corner and which serves up OTA TV in an OTT format. End of story. And they’ve nailed that.
Just my 2c.
2 Likes
Yeah, I hear ya @Pundit. I myself started out with a “just works” mentality. Then, when that didn’t work out for me, I started digging for solutions, which led me to this forum. Reading the many posts from forum members who seem to have a pretty good idea of what they want/need inspired my post.
I still haven’t been able to get mine working exactly right in my network environment, but somehow, I find myself a fan of the many possibilities that seem to be almost within reach.
For what its worth I don’t think the native recordings would add much to the storage requirements, unless users choose not to auto-delete them after conversion. But then that would be a choice, not a disadvantage, right?.
Ok, I have a silly thought.
Why can’t they start buffering/transcoding when I select a channel in the Guide? If I change channels in the Guide then throw away the buffered work. If I select the channel and then select the Play Now button you can immediately start playing the H.264 stream. The time it takes to select a Live TV channel, select a program and hit the Play Now button would account for most of the startup delay.
How slow do you go through the guide? This isn’t feasible for us who scroll through quickly.
I guess it might be a factor that I’m still not used to navigating the guide in Tablo. From the time I select a channel to selecting a current show to pressing the Play Now button is maybe 5-10 seconds including “think time”. I suspect that some folks will have faster reflexes, but if they can cut out just 5 seconds they will have made a significant improvement.
@sstjean If you select play instead of OK from the guide you can bypass selecting the show and then selecting play now. Hitting play from the guide will immediately start the buffering process.
2 Likes
Ditto, i don’t use it anymore for live tv, buffers too much during playing of live tv on my fire stick even with it being on wired network.
The Fire TV Stick is a WiFi only device, how is it hard wired to your device?
Fire stick is wireless but even using the 5ghz band it buffers. My point was the tablo is on wired to provide the best speed possible for that end.
I also used my dads fire tv that is 10/100/1000 Ethernet and it still was sluggish. Less than my fire stick for sure but still slow.
I love the tablo for mobile device use and as a dvr solution. It is not a tv junkies device. Really no OTA device is a tv junkie device bc of the lack of other channels lol but if I watched more tv I’d get s channel master but bc I watch more tv after the dvr works well and the splitter for minor live tv is fine.
The title of this thread says it all. I am more than disappointed, I feel guilty and misled. These delays should have been spelled out to the consumer up front. I had recommended this Tablo device to a family member after reading reviews about a year ago. I feel so bad for doing that. I see this device as defective by design. The delays are unacceptable, people should not have to switch to the TV turner to watch TV but, that is what you have to do. I see the Tablo is a glorified VCR that you switch to when you want to watch something you recorded. Playing live TV is one of those “features” that you would never use. As soon as the box can send the video to the receiving device TV it should be doing that. Building up a buffer so you can rewind before you can see the show is…is… why would you even do that?!