@shhern WRT, “It was also not broadcaster issues as I was watching the same channel on Live TV…”
Was the live TV via the Tablo? If so, it’s not the same problem we are reporting in this thread. Watching live TV yields a “no signal” message and a reboot – which clears the problem.
OK, new insights. I think I know the cause (hardware), what is at fault (Tablo for lackluster implementation of its file structure), why this was so confusing (Tablo dev has no fault/recovery processes built-in… the unit just reports “crossed out play icons” until the fault is cleared or lost due to a Tablo reset/power cycle).
So, after my post Friday night I looked into the hard drive (as I noticed I kept reporting 200GB of used space in my numbers, across threads… Why the same number so often I wondered?) and sure enough a single bad sector was found on the drive (which is pretty insignificant, really) but a fault all the same.
It’s so insignificant that just scanning the drive was enough for the native drive firmware to self-resolve the issue. (@TabloSupport: Why couldn’t normal Tablo access to the drive trigger sector repair? Is this a ext3 limitation? Couldn’t the Tablo device have some sort of routine HD drive scan/care procedure?) Anyway, I know the drive self-repaired this fault because after the HD Tune scan (which reported the single bad sector) I ran the HD manufactures drive tools “SeaTools” and the drive passed both the short DST and Long Generic drive scans with no errors…
I then re-ran HD Tune again and no bad sectors where found on the second scan. So, I went ahead and did a SeaTools long erase (which writes 0’s in all sectors) just to be sure the drive was as optimal as possible… plugged it into the Tablo today and let the Tablo format the drive when it prompted.
Now this is where it gets interesting today… during the 8hrs (overnight) it took to scan and low-level format a 1.5TB drive I had the Tablo unplugged. I plugged the HD into it this afternoon and plugged the power back into the Tablo… let it format the drive, then I connected to it… only to find even more “crossed out play icons”, WTF!?! Just how stupid is a Tablo? Pretty stupid.
So now I know:
1) That my new hard drive likely had a bad sector… which causes “any” Tablo (the 2 tuner model at least) to go f*&#K@&* nuts once it’s encountered.
Question to @TabloSupport: Shouldn’t the Tablo do a low-level format (or have the option) in order to assure a drive (in my case a brand new drive) is in optimal condition to perform for Tablo? Having to do it myself via a computer is just lame. How about some indicator other than “crossed out play icons” for when a Tablo goes stupid. That would be real nice
2) That “crossed out play icons” are to be interpreted as a possible Tablo device “freak out”… when all recordings fail with “crossed out play icons”.
Statement to @TabloSupport @matb33: This is just stupid. Build some sort of auto-reboot (think Windows Blue Screen of Death… which right now seems so much better than a never ending occurrence of “crossed out play icons”) instead of just ignoring the issue. Isn’t that the mark of a good programmer, one which has fault statements which exit routines which don’t output correctly!? Come on, figure out something. What a horrible user experience this is presently.
3) The Tablo device doesn’t even need to be powered on to generate “crossed out play icons”… @matb33 I’m speechless. WTH!?!
So now here I am with a new Tablo unit that fails the same way as my original.
A hard drive which has only ever been formatted by Tablo (until today) and which has now been low-level formatted by SeaTools.
Everything is reconnected as it was 3 days ago and a bunch of recording setup to record. (Fingers crossed!)
If everything starts working henceforth… than this means either Tablo owners need to periodically low-level format their hard drives or at least do so on initial setup.
No matter what happens… Tablo really needs to take ownership of this issue and put some dev effort towards dealing with with this trigger event. Knowing “crossed out play icons” can happen when a unit is unplugged is shocking… seeing that a single bad sector on a hard drive can cause the Tablo to become useless, is just so disappointing.
@Thumbs - It will be interesting to see if others have bad sectors. I keep a WinDoze machine around; so I downloaded SeaTools and had a look. The basic quick and short generic tests found no issues, so I’m running the long generic (which will take some time).
Is your theory that all of us with this issue have 1+ bad sectors and the Tablo fails when it happens to write to that sector?
BTW, I see your drive is showing in SeaTools as Backup+ SL. Mine is showing as Backup+ BL. Do we all (with the issue) have Seagate drives?
Seagate Backup Plus Slim 1TB here. I thought that the hardware managed the allocation of bad sectors, and that extra sectors were kept in reserve as replacements. Maybe the Tablo file system/access method somehow interferes with this?
@jkline Yup, that’s my theory.
If this reoccurs than I’ll immediately disconnect the drive and do another HD Tune error scan to see-what-I-see and confirm.
BTW, be sure to use the Help menu in SeaTools to load the log file after the Long Generic Test is complete… that lists any bad sectors found/fixed. The manual didn’t clearly state if it would report a “pass state” even with a few bad sectors… so check the log just to be sure.
@mbellaire Drives inevitably develop bad sectors over time/use and yes, drives automatically remap around them with the reserves… the fact that this could be the cause of the Tablo behaving so badly, is a grave concern of mine. I don’t see how a single bad sector should be so devistating.
A Wikipedia read on ext3 reveals just how old ext3 is. Why is this “old” journaling file system in my life. Thanks for nothing Tablo!
Wow, thanks for all the research Thumbs. When I get my Tablo, at least I’ll have a clue as to what is going on if things get wonky.
@jkline No, it was with the tuner in my TV but using same antennae. I still believe it is the same issue mentioned in the first post as during the "lockup" any new recordings showed up as crossed out. It would show them in the web interface but not the Roku. It is possible the unit reset at some point and the recordings started to work again.
I'm using a WD drive on my unit and will try to look into the sectors if I have time tomorrow.
Great to see some of you guys digging into things deeper.
Noticed an issue this morning that might be related to this (beginnings of the problem that worsen over time?). I have been on the lookout for failed recordings and found one this morning from last week on channel 20.1 (720p). I tried Live TV on 20.1 and instead of the Tablo resetting like I was expecting it came back with an error, unable to tune channel (reception issue). Ok, I go to my TV, go to 20.1, comes in with no problem. Go back to the Tablo and try 20.1 again, and then 20.2 (480i) - both failed (live tv and recordings). I then tried some of my other channels and those all worked. WTH? I was going to power cycle the Tablo, but instead I decided to do a rescan of the channels (all channels showed 4 green dots before rescan). I had to rescan a few times because the channels that were checkboxed didn’t want to show up on the Settings page (maybe that’s another issue, or maybe I had to wait for a refresh). Anyway, long story short, after rescanning the channels, 20.1 and 20.2 now work fine (live tv and recordings). I did not touch the antenna feed. Because this was limited to only 20.1 and 20.2 you could say it was a broadcaster problem, but if so the Tablo is not handling it very well. I am not an expert in television broadcasting, but what could a Broadcaster change that would “break” that channel on Tablo?
@mbellaire - " I had to rescan a few times because the channels that were checkboxed didn’t want to show up on the Settings page (maybe that’s another issue…"
That is another issue. I reported it on my 4-tuner. I was told I was the first to report it. In any event, I’m sure they will work it out over time.
@TabloSupport - @mbellaire & @streambird (in the “Guide Data Not Downloading” thread) are reporting the same issue I reported in ticket #1010. You might want to reopen it.
Y’know, all these guide data issues and recordings getting botched are very disconcerting. I mean, I expect there will be a few bugs, but for something that you want specifically to time shift, lost/corrupted data is a real concern (to me, at least).
@VegasSteve - I share your concern. The first months I had my Tablo it worked great (the software was a little rough around the edges, but it worked). Now these odd errors are popping up. Someone in another thread thought that the 2.1.10 firmware might have something to do with it, but who knows. I have high hopes that the Tablo folks can get things straightened out because I really do like the product. They don’t want to get too close to the reputation “tipping point”. @TabloTV - I know you have been working on manual recordings, but are there any stability updates in the pipeline?
Agreed, stability is frustratingly lackluster. My Tablo locked up sometime between Saturday night and Sunday morning for the second time since I got it mid May. I am using an “Enterprise” 2TB drive (MK1002TSKB) that shouldn’t have any bad sectors but not ruling it out. Wish there was a way to see to log errors for user end troubleshooting @TabloTV
We're hard at work here. One of the many benefits of having such an active community is documenting the feedback we get from our users. That being said - we take it very seriously, and it weighs in on how we decide to move forward.
There are stability improvements coming in the future. We want to reduce as many friction points while using the Tablo as possible. That being said, the best thing to do, always, is to submit a support request with me at Support@tablotv.com.
If you're not satisfied with the resolution we come to - let me know. Tickets are never closed - even if they've been marked 'solved' there's nothing that prevents you from simply re-opening the ticket by replying to the email. Some of these fixes take time; they rely on new build releases to address limitations in functionality, or fixing bugs, etc.
We'll be releasing a new build very soon. It will update the Tablo's firmware, and every single client we support. There's lots coming in the near term, and even more down the pipeline. Stay tuned.
I am glad to hear such positive news from Tablo. From my own experience, Tablo (David ) was extremely helpful in resolving my WiFi issues from my original shipment. All said from the time I submitted my original ticket, to the final resolution was only a week. And the reason it took a week was because a replacement was needed. They entire process was communicated at all times. Top notch support in my mind!
Please keep up the great work, continued development and customer service as your company grows!
Having the same problem - going to grab a new drive tomorrow and see if that helps resolve this.
Interesting thing is after it failing to record for most of this week, I was able to manually record a show this evening. Curious to see if the scheduled recordings I have set up for tomorrow morning record or not.
If you need any additional information or anyone to test out pending fixes, feel free to reach out to me. This won’t be a daily driver until some of the issues are resolved.
And this isn’t any worse than the early days of SageTV and using the original Homerun tuners. :)
Well, the scheduled recordings this morning failed, and yet I was able to manually record on the same channel right afterwards.
@mtuckman - the problem reported in this thread is that all scheduled recordings fail until a reboot. Attempting to view live TV results in an error message and a spontaneous reboot. It doesn’t sound like the same issue to me. Have you tried to view live TV? Also, what is a manual recording? Do you mean a single show rather than recording all in a series?
It could be that Tablo is out of sync with your client and that the Tablo doesn’t actually have your schedule. Have you tried deleting the Tablo from your client and re-adding it?