Adding channels from multiple directions

Just because one antenna is tuned for UHF and one for VHF it doesn’t mean they won’t pick up the other band. Filters can help but I really wouldn’t recommend them unless you have good reason for them. They result in signal loss. You may have gotten results you were happy with but that doesn’t mean you couldn’t have done better.

As an Ameteur radio operator I have a lot of practical and theoretical experience with radio waves and antennas. I also have talked to others way smarter then myself on this very topic. Small details matter.

It’s possible you are experiencing the effects of antenna “polarization”. This is important even when an antenna is not considered directional. With that said all antennas have at least some directional bias.

Hello fellow Michigander reddogracing!

I grew up in zip 49601, watching all the main stations you’re after back in the analog days. I now live down in Kent County, but have my Tablo and rooftop antenna solution favoring WWTV 9.1 as my primary CBS. (My wife and kids think I’m crazy to want an out-of-market station…but I have family and friends in Northern Michigan.)

I’d fear that whatever omni (disc) antenna you’d source would come up short on capturing WWTV, since it’s on RF 9 (“real frequency” 9), which is referred to as being part of the High-VHF band. For best results, something a yard wide is needed for that frequency.

You mentioned your street above, and I can picture that once I looked it up. Not sure if you’ve found the site I’ll use in the next link, but it maps out and estimates signal strengths and directions, and I think this would be pretty accurate for you (I assumed a 35 foot above ground height, but it shouldn’t vary much if your roof peek is a bit different):

https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php?request=result&study_id=14037

Note that that some of the broadcast signals are duplicates of others in your area. With the right set-up, even through the trees (as I’m surrounded with 60 footers at my current place, too), you should be able to get:

From 58 degrees (I’m listing the virtual channel numbers that the Tablo and TVs would show):

7.1 (and 29.1) NBC
7.2 (and 29.2) ABC
7.3 Comet

27.1 through 27.3 PBS (including PBS Kids)

From 142 degrees:
9.1 CBS
9.2 Fox
9.3 MeTV
9.4 CW (although I’m wondering if it might get removed, now that the 32.x broadcast is back on-line)

Maybe from 142 degrees with the same antenna:

32.1 FOX (same as 9.2, as both are HD now)
32.2 CW
32.3 Ion

I’ll readily admit I’m a big fan of the antennas from Antennas Direct. With that mentioned, I’d recommend the older model ClearStream 2V to you:

Its advantage for you versus their current model 2MAX is that the VHF dipole (that yard long horizontal stick shown) can be zip-tied to the mast at a different angle than the loops. Their older instruction sheet used to show that, but I can’t seem to search that up online now.

So you’d be able to square the VHF dipole up perpendicular to the WWTV signal to the SE, and have the loops pointed toward the Kalkaska tower that has the others on it to the ENE.

I’ll also mention to not be afraid to source one of these antennas as an open box from any website. Honestly, I believe many people return antennas after trying them briefly…and not researching much about what direction they should point.

Your sister likely is also receiving the 26.x signal with its half dozen or so subchannels, including MI News 26. That broadcast tower is east of Cadillac along M-55. They’ve been approved to increase their output strength, but will still be a low power station. It’s iffy as to whether even then you’ll receive them or not, just so you know.

Good luck! Statmanmi

ok, so the new omni arrived and i set in on the temp pole, again, this is just above the house peak, maybe 20’ AGL, still well below the trees and still low overall evaluation.

Next question is, how high to I go now?

I can go about 55’ probably, but the higher the more difficult.

I have a full 40" rohn tower with about 55’ of pipe that i can run down the center to mount the antenna and get a little more height without the work of raising the tower.

Do I just go safe and do as high as I can?

Do i keep the omni and assume i will grab a few more stations with the extra elevation?

All this talk of multiple antennas and phase relationships, pretty difficult for the average home gamer. It all becomes much easier with a VHF/UHF diplexer.

Congratulations reddogracing, You’re almost set.

Honestly, your current height might be fine, as the signals on the Kalkaska tower might be somewhat diminished right now until after they complete their “repack” effort to change the frequencies that come out of the single shared antenna at the top of that tower.

You’re getting the PBS stations that display as 27.x. They’re coming from that same broadcast antenna, and WPBN (NBC) has posted this article about Friday, Oct. 18th being the day to rescan your tuners and TVs:

The day you work on putting the antenna on the tower, can you have someone monitoring the screen inside to see what height (and direction–it’s worth spinning the circle from what I’ve read, as omnidirectionals can still have some directivity to them I’ve seen posted by others) as they do various rescans? I’d indeed say start with just going to a comfortable height on the existing Rohn and see if you do receive the ones I listed above.

One facet of TV signals is that generally higher is better, but there can be sweet spots that defy that rule of thumb. Thus, it takes experimentation to find out if the top of the tower is better than 6 feet lower, etc.

Good luck! I’m impressed that the omni is getting you 9.x, since that’s likely the VHF signal from south of Cadillac (although it could be the UHF signal from by Traverse City of their lower power translator).

Cheers! ~~ Statmanmi

So update time, no good news. i got the tower up and the omni is 45’ above the ground and about 25’ above the house peak. I am on the highest area in the neighborhood. yesterday i had a great scan and picks up every channel there is i think 19 total. My goal is 7 reliable which seems to be the hardest, yet they have a tower closest. However after the scan when i go to watch any of the 7s they are bad in and out or even tells me signal weak. So I think it is the long amounts of cable i used. we tried viasat over the winter and it didnt work but they run a bunch of new cable so i used it. it ran the length of the house and back because there is a ground rod back there. today i eleminated all the extra cable, moved the grounding block to the base of the tower and shortened both cables 100’ total. Now my scans do not get 7s at all. so only change is less cable and i used crimp on ends because i have no way to do better,

tower with omni facing 245 can NOT spin it without a bucket truck got it too tight

todays scan

yesterdays scans even though 7s were green they came and went

could the crimp connectors be that bad or i did a bad strip or somethig?

If when you crimped on the new connectors is it possible that you accidentally allowed a stray shield wire to touch the center conductor? Is it possible that you cut the center wire too short to make a reliable connection to the female connector?

Is it possible that you are over driving the Tablo’s receivers? Do you have a preamplifier or amplifier that might be amplifying the signal too much for your close stations? If you do have a preamplifier, can you disable the amplifier and scan your channels again?

Have you tried connecting the antenna directly to the TV? Usually TV tuners can handle a stronger signal than Tablo can.

i have the 1 by one UFO antenna posted above. it has a little amp that is inside the house. it has a dial but i dont see much change turning it.

Step one i think is trying to figure out why the big change in scan. i will re do the cable ends and see if there is any change. i also replaced hte cable from the amp to the tablo. it was about 3’ long so i used a 6" piece that i had. trying to cut down on cable length. I was probaly pushing close to 200’ total testerday and today i am down to 60’

i tried hooking to the tv and get same reception there. so it is in the connections outside, or the scn yesterday was just a freak, Do not understand how raising 25’ doesnt improve the reception. 27 are same as before 9 is same 7 maybe slightly better
i am checking the ends in stalled outside next

You mentioned that you replaced a 3’ length of cable with a 6" cable. Is it possible that the 6" cable is bad?

i switched it back no change, plus i used the longer one to go to the tv and the shorter one to the tablo and tv isnt any better than tablo
i dont see anything wrong with the connectors i installed. my be my imagination, but i seem to feel a slight current when i disconnected and reconnected them idk

If your preamplifier was plugged into your AC outlet, there would be a small DC current running through the cable to the antenna.

You might try removing the preamplifier power inserter (the box with the dial on it). Another thing to check is to make sure the preamplifier power inserter is connected in the proper direction. It should have directions on it showing to antenna and to TV.

something i hadnt thought about until now is that i left the preamp plugged in when i cut the wire. i know there is still power but how sensative are these things. obviously when i cut through the entire cable i had to of shorted it out briefly. are they something you can replace with another brand or do i have to get one from 1BY ONE? i tried the spectrum amp but no luck

Sorry, I don’t know how sensitive they are. Maybe someone else on this forum can give some insight. You might try the website for your antenna and see what advice it might provide.

update. first thing this morning 7 June i got 20 station and they all came in, by 10 am the 7s and 27s started to deteriorate. i can probably safely go up another 15’ if i can find a tower section and a michgan supplier that can match the tubing i used down the center. even this may not clear the trees as they are very tall but it will be close. wish i had the drone to see how much higher it would take.