Just to chime in. Not that I have any answers to this issue. Seems to me if 30 is the output and 30 is the max on Roku then should not be an issue there, but perhaps an issue with the router/network. Just my thoughts.
As for my experience:
I have Tablo set up via power ethernet, Roku 3 ethernet to my router, TV 59" Sanyo (yes 59"…why not 60"?..I don’t know) Motion Sync is off (never worked right on even with Cable).
I record in 1080.
Last night my home town Bears played my Jaguars (lived there for 8 years when they got the team) and I recorded it. Watched it today and didn’t notice any issues at all.
That being stated, I too watched the world cup and saw some terrible pictures to say the least. Those were live and prior to the updates we recently had. Also could have been my Antenna setup at the time.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t 720p video sent out at 60 fps? So if your FIOS is capturing and playing back 60 FPS while the Tablo is at 30 FPS, that would explain why the Tablo would look different.
1080i content is at 30 FPS, so it should look better with the Tablo than 720p content, at least for high motion.
The H.264 codec that Nuvyyo uses captures at 30 FPS no matter if it is 720p or 1080p, but 720p video is going to be natively broadcast at 60 fps (from what I can tell).
Also, if you are on a 720P channel, the Tablo will record at 720p no matter what you have set to. The 1080P vs. 720P setting only affects 1080i channels. I am somewhat curious if the 1080P vs. 720P setting on the Roku is affected though for 720P shows.
I still have a 2-tuner, so I won’t necessarily have the same results as a four tuner. I do have another Titans game to watch tonight (720P) and I will see how it does.
OK, thats a revelation. I assumed that broadcast was only 30 FPS. So my next question is why aren’t you recording at the 60 FPS. I am assuming most DVRs record at 60 FPS?
I think it comes down to the fact the Tablo is a streaming device. Almost every internet stream is going to be 30 fps (Youtube is just now allowing 48 fps and 60 fps videos). By encoding a consistent 30 fps using the H.264 codec, the streams can be played back on practically any device.
From what I can tell, the Roku can only play back 30 fps video anyway.
In my area, not a single channel is 1080 “P” the 1080 broadcasts are all interlaced, which I guess is about the same airway bandwidth as 720 “P” content.
I am just now experimenting with Tablo’s 1080p record setting… I suspect the trans-coding from interlaced to progressive is the issue here. I understand all Tablo content is 29.97 fps “progressive”. De-interlacing video is the hardest setting for encoders to get right.
@mattman13 are your test cases from 1080i channels or 720p? It might be worth comparing how Tablo content looks on progressive vs interlaced channels.
720p encoding is pretty good by Tablo, because basically… Tablo can’t make it worse… The channels are either already 720p content or are being successfully “downgraded” to 720p from 1080i.
Now the question is… Is Tablo’s transcoding from 1080 interlaced to 1080 progressive any good? Basically an upscaling process.
I’ll personally be surprised… As it is such a hard thing to do well… But I’m just now paying attention, due to the need for football at 1080p to be spot on. 720p for football just isn’t cutting it.
@mattman13 view your Tablo settings page to see which channels are 1080i vs 720p. In my area, football games will be on multiple channels, some of which are 1080i and others are 720p. Hopefully that’s true for you too.
I have the 4 tuner model and too notice something going on with the video. I have a Roku 3 connected to a 50" plasma and a Roku 3 connected to a 32" LCD and notice it on both. There is some sort of strange slow down of video when playing tablo live tv or recorded content. It is not to the point where it is so noticeable that it is unwatchable, but still there enough to be an annoyance. I can watch the same shows I recorded on Tablo on Hulu plus and not notice this slow down in video as I see on the tablo. I do not think it is a frame rate issue as these two videos show great examples of 24 fps and 30 fps. The 24 fps examples show how bad the video can be and Tablo does not exhibit this behavior but definitely does not show the video as fast as the 30 fps examples either.
@guck11 Both examples display the effect at 24fps that i am seeing, but no where near that bad.
I am still struggling to understand how the Tablo effect can be considered normal. It is clearly visible with onscreen action. At 30Fps it should be able to keep with broadcast TV. It seems like it is dropping frames during recording because it cant keep up. The playback is consistently showing the effect.
Anyone know of a way to estimate fps being displayed on the destination device?
FYI, just had time to watch part of a football game and found a surprising cause of my issues… my Roku 3 was still set to 720p output. I’ll need more time watching content to be sure but right now, this down-the-chain setting has dramatically improved fast motion artifacts.
I’ve been happy with the 720p Roku setting for “big head” TV but for football… the running and the wide field shots , just looked awful. I paused the video a lot during these shots and noticed just horrible “encoding” artifacts trailing the fast moving action. Just awful artifacts… the trailing outline of where the motion just was… without the fill color. I’m sure that has a name.
Anyway, so I changed my Roku 3 to 1080p display output and watched the same parts of the game again (pausing it lots) and to my surprise, the awful trailing artifacts are gone and the experience is SOOO much better.
Interestingly, the source football game was broadcast in 720p and so recorded as 720p by Tablo… it was the Roku that was butchering my content. Now, I still haven’t seen a 1080p Tablo recorded football game through my Rooku… so maybe you guys are reporting something else I haven’t seen yet. I just know now, I trust my Roku about as far as I can throw it.
Ok, watched a 1080i football broadcast, recorded in 1080p by tablo, displayed in 1080p by a Roku 3… and it was just horrible! Worst thing I’ve seen from Tablo… but probably a Roku issue… but who knows.
Stadium scenes (people in seats) were all just crude mpeg block artifacts (just so hard on the eyes) and the team logos in the broadcast score board were a jagged/pixelated mess (that never happens in OTA… the computer graphics are always crystal clear), plus tons of other poor quality mpeg issues. I should share some screenshots on all this.
Anyway, I’ve set the Tablo back down to 720p and will leave the Roku at 1080p. I hope this will balance the Tablo content with what the pos-Roku can handle. We’ll see next weekend.
My Roku3 has always been set to 1080p. I have not necessarily noticed any subpar images, though from what I’ve read 1080i’s bandwidth requirements do tend to introduce digital noise. My 720p always looked as good from a detail perspective as 1080i and my DVR recording.
I checked my 1080i recording of the KC game and the 1080i issue seems to be fixed. However, same choppy picture.
I think the Tablo should handle this, but for some reason it is doing something funky with the encoding.
FTR, this issue is with all recordings, though it is most prominent with sports.
